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The Agile Within
Providing agile insights into human values and behaviors through genuine connections.
The Agile Within
Scrum Master 2.0 with Parjin Manguri
As a Scrum Master do you feel trapped in an endless cycle of fixing the same team problems? It just might be time to evolve your approach.
In this thought-provoking episode, Parjin Manguri shares her vision for "Scrum Master 2.0" - the evolution from team facilitator to systemic change agent. Drawing from her experiences across multiple organizations, Parjin explains why many team-level challenges are actually symptoms of deeper organizational issues that require a broader perspective to address.
We explore the delicate balance between focusing on immediate team needs while influencing system-level change. Parjin shares powerful examples of using data visualization to help leadership see the impact of their decisions, like the case of a team whose throughput skyrocketed when allowed to focus on a single sprint goal without interruption.
The conversation dives into practical tools and techniques for expanding your influence, including creating communities of practice with other Scrum Masters, mapping organizational decision points, and employing delegation poker to clarify autonomy levels. We also discuss strategies for facilitating productive conversations between teams and leadership that break down hierarchical barriers and create psychological safety.
Whether you're a Scrum Master feeling limited by your current role or a leader wondering how to unlock the full potential of your Agile coaches, this episode offers concrete strategies for addressing root causes rather than endlessly treating symptoms. Listen now to discover how you can become a more effective agent of meaningful organizational change.
Connect with Parjin on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/parjin-manguri-3185a6148/
Follow us on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-agile-within
Welcome to the Agile Within. I am your host, mark Metz. My mission for this podcast is to provide Agile insights into human values and behaviors through genuine connections. My guests and I will share real-life stories from our Agile journeys, triumphs, blunders and everything in between, as well as the lessons that we have learned. So get pumped, get rocking. The Agile Within starts now.
Speaker 1:Before we dive into today's episode, I'd like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, impact Agility. Impact Agility specializes in training and coaching through scrumorg and proconbonorg, empowering teams with cutting-edge tools and techniques. Their classes are designed to deliver actionable insights, whether you're a scrum master, agile coach, delivery manager or organizational leader. Whether you're a scrum master, agile coach, delivery manager or organizational leader, at the helm is president and founder Matt Domenici, who has guided over 50 organizations toward professional agility. With his hands-on experience, matt helps teams and organizations take ownership of their processes and outcomes, unlocking their full potential. To explore free learning resources, check out their training schedule or book a free consultation, visit impactagilityco Once again. That's impactagilityco. Hey, welcome back everybody. This is Mark Metz with the Agile Within. I hope you're having an absolutely fantastic day today. My guest for today's episode is Parjin Manguri. Parjin, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much, Mark. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, glad to have you. So Parjin is from Granada, spain. I think you're the first guest that I've had from Spain, so congratulations for that. If I were coming to Granada for a day, parzian, and had never been there before which I haven't what's one thing that you would say that I couldn't miss doing?
Speaker 2:Actually, mark, if you visit Granada, then you definitely need to visit Sacromonte. Sacromonte is a beautiful neighborhood in Granada known for cave dwellings and flamenco shows, so this is something that you definitely need to see, and there is like a very nice long pathway which is called Vereda de Enmedio, which is a beautiful street that you can walk along, and then you can have also a beautiful view to the Alhambra, which is a fortress and a palace in Granada, and you see that and also the mountains around it, and then you definitely need to have some tapas as well.
Speaker 1:Sounds very picturesque so is that a? Place that you go often.
Speaker 2:I do. I do Especially for reading, just taking a book, sitting there having a view on the mountains and I love that.
Speaker 1:Oh, sounds lovely. Well, I want to introduce Parzian to everybody now that we know about Granada. So Parzian's origin is Kurdish, specifically from the north of Iraq, but she grew up in Germany and decided a couple years ago to move to sunny South Spain. She has over four years of experience as an Agile coach. She started as a Scrum Master and then transitioned into an Agile coaching role, and she's currently pursuing the Professional Coaching Certification. That's not an easy endeavor. It definitely requires some dedications, and also, in Parsons' free time, she loves to do CrossFit and play the piano. So you are very well versed. Indeed, the title for today's episode is Scrum Master 2.0. So, parshan, tell us what you mean by that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually, mark, I'm really excited about today's topic because, for me, scrum Master 2.0 is going away from the typical servant leader Scrum Master to a systemic change agent. For me, when we talk about Scrum Masters, I think they do not get the proper attention that they should. So we often talk about Scrum Masters in the context of a team facilitation, but they are playing such a more and important role, especially when it comes to having a view on the broader systemic level. So what I often see is, for example, that Scrum Masters, or the teams of the Scrum Masters, when they face challenges, those challenges are not often only team challenges. Those are symptoms of, let's say, deeper organizational issues, and that's where the Scrum Master can elevate from being a servant leader to a systemic change agent.
Speaker 1:That definitely is a stance that some Scrum Masters do, I'll just say, shy away from as being a change agent, feeling that it's someone else's responsibility, that their responsibility is more on the team level and not on the organization level. But it doesn't take you very far into reading the Scrum Guide to see that being a change agent for the organization, not just the team and not just for the product owner, is in our responsibility, right?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I think we can start here directly. You know, when we are, for example, interviewing scrum masters and also as a scrum master, just be part of the interview to try to understand what kind of view that specific scrum master has when starting in the organization. Right, because this is also something that I always foresee when interviewing scrum masters to try to just touch upon getting that understanding. If they just have the view of, yeah, my team is running smoothly and they do not have any impediments, or they, they have no internal conflicts, and that's fine, but do they also understand that they actually are there for the organization and trying to understand what is going on on a system level? Maybe also to clarify because I'm using the word system now a couple of times when I talk about system, it's really everything in the organization.
Speaker 2:So, starting from the organizational culture, do we have, for example, a lot of hierarchies in the organization, or is it more a collaborative culture that we have? Or how are decisions taken in the organization, or is it more collaborative culture that we have? Or how are decisions taken in in the organization? Who's who's the owner of of power? Are there like differences there as well, or do we have kpis in place. What kind of expectations do we have from, from leaderships? And also one important aspect the cross-team dependencies. Are there cross-team dependencies or is your team just organized around one product, which is completely independent from others as well?
Speaker 1:So I very frequently talk about keeping things in balance, because many times the problems aren't all the way on one side, on the left side, and the problems are all the way on the right side.
Speaker 1:It's that gray area somewhere in the middle. And tell me what you think about this, because I have found that when I've tried to, I've pushed a little too hard on the change agent side and what I noticed happened was the team started getting very much focused on things that were outside of their control, things that were organizational impediments, and I really had to actually stop a retrospective and say, okay, these are all great things that you say that are impediments that are impeding you, that are holding you up, but everything that I'm hearing are things that are outside of your control. What are things that are outside of your control? What are things that are inside of your control? That's what I mean by balance is that, yes, we can be a change agent, but sometimes we can be so hyper-focused on that that we lose sight of the team. And having that proper balance, how do you maintain that proper balance so that teams are introspective toward themselves but also aware outside of themselves?
Speaker 2:Oh, I think for me, mark, it is quite important that the team I mean, of course they have when they're doing the retrospectives and they come up with all the impediments that they're facing you know to have the understanding, like you said, what is within your control and what is outside of your control. But I think what is important is that the Scrum Master is aware of what are the things happening over and over again which are not really a team issue, but which is an organizational issue, right? So this is also when we talk about protecting the team. Of course, you should keep focusing on the team and you should also protect the team from the outside dangers, let's say. But it is important that, as a scrum master, you have the understanding okay, this is happening over and over again, right, maybe asking the question why is this problem re-happening over and over again? And then to understand okay, this is something that I, as a scrum master, need to pick up in a community, maybe, and this is something that the team can focus on, so that outside of the team, you also build up connections, right. So we need to start with building up awareness for the scrum master that there are some sort of internal conflicts that are happening, but then that there are also things outside of the team dynamics that are happening within the system. So, starting with, okay, what is happening over again, for example? Or okay, we face here an issue due to decisions made by whom, who's making that decision?
Speaker 2:And maybe also to give you an example, I had in one of my teams or actually multiple teams the problem of high rollovers. Right, so, they have planned their sprint, but it kept happening that the rollover from sprint to sprint was quite high and we had multiple teams, so that the rollover amount of all the teams was quite high. And then there were management attention. Okay, so why do we have such high rollover? The scrum masters are not really doing their job.
Speaker 2:But then, when you try to understand what is the reason behind of that rollover and it's not really a team issue here, but it's more an organizational issues because, for example, the requirements are not ready in time this is where you start to realize that there are certain things due to, for example, the company working agile, but the customer not working agile. So this is why the requirements cannot always be ready in advance. But try to understand what is the reason behind and then you can create, outside of your specific team, together with other scrum masters, a community to understand and then talk to management. Okay, you're complaining about the rollover or you want to put some KPIs in place which are more controlling than encouraging? Let's fix, then, the actual root cause and stop just fixing symptoms. This is something that I actually focus a lot on to fix their root causes instead of just trying to find short-term solutions for the symptoms popping up.
Speaker 1:I'll give you a really good example on using data to help with that. And I had a team where it was a high-profile project or product that they were working on, let's say, and the senior management was very insistent that they had to begin work on multiple things. And I see you smirking the people out there can't see you smirking, but you know where this is headed. And so then the conversation became at Sprint Review is like boy, this team doesn't seem like they're really getting a lot done. What's the problem? Are we not fully committed, or what's the problem? And we discussed this during retrospectives and I felt that now is the time to burst the bubble. And so I said during the sprint review. I said, ok, the team feels like they're being split between too many different initiatives and they really want to be able to focus. So tell you, what, can you give me? Just one sprint, just two weeks. That's all I'm asking for. Two weeks, help us to set a goal for the sprint and let's not change it Now if something comes down that the company is going to go bankrupt if we don't, okay, understand that. But short of bankruptcy, can we agree that we're just going to set our course for two weeks and hold off anything urgent for two weeks. And so they agreed to that.
Speaker 1:And at the end we measured the throughput and I compared that to the throughput of the previous three sprints and the chart was like I mean it was, it painted a picture. I mean you saw this, this low bar chart, and then all of a sudden, you see this huge jump like you would want to see if you invested in a stock. Right, you see this huge jump and immediately I saw people pointing at the camera when we showed that, oh, that looks, yeah, that looks great Boy, what was the difference in this sprint? I was like aha, I'm glad you asked. Well, you agreed to let us focus on one sprint. So this is the power of focus and not dividing our attention between multiple things.
Speaker 1:And after that point, that chart got referenced numerous times during various meetings Like oh, wait a minute, we're asking for too many things at once. Remember that chart. We don't want to go back to that low throughput. We're causing churn for the teams. Let's let them focus on something. Get it done, then we'll work on the next objective. So that was a very long story, but it is a powerful portrayal of how data and pictures can paint the message.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and that's the point, right. But here I see again the importance of Scrum Masters, so not only being focused on the team, but having also that conversation with management, because what I often see is that Scrum Masters they focus too much on the team, literally right, so they're afraid sometimes even to speak up and to say okay, the real challenge that we're facing right now is that, for example, we have too much context switching in our team. There are, like too many initiatives that we are focusing on. We're not even maybe are being set up correctly, because if you're working projects within a team, of course everyone is pushing deadlines, the high important requirements towards the team, rather than being focused on okay, what is actually our product? What are we delivering here and what is our goal? What is our sprint goal, as you said? And if you then have a sprint goal, you can work towards that.
Speaker 2:But if you don't and you just work projects and you know everyone wants something from you, then it's also quite difficult to actually achieve something in a certain time and then also deliver it in a certain quality, right. But that conversation needs to happen. So you need to speak up as a scrum master and say like hey, management, and then directly also talk to management, right, because you do not need to hide behind someone or try to, I don't know. Use your team manager or maybe a coach, even, or whatever. You can have that conversation on your own, like building up the community with other scrum masters saying we all face the same issues. So it cannot be something team related. It is something happening on a wider perspective. How can we change that together? What needs to change to actually be successful here?
Speaker 1:So there's a saying that a dead scrum master is a useless scrum master. Yeah, how do you build that trust with the senior level management? Let's say, how do we build the trust with the stakeholders that we're coming to them and we're not just favoring the team too much, but we actually are doing this for the goodness of the organization? How do you build those relationships? How do you build those?
Speaker 2:relationships. Well, I think you need to start meeting them where they are. First of all, try to understand their perspective. So this is also very important, right? Because when we are talking about system everyone in a system there are, like so many subsystems. So try to understand first the perspective of the different subsystems within a system, so you have the view on your team and then maybe put yourself into the shoes of the high management. Okay, what is it exactly what they need to achieve? Why are they acting a certain way? And if you understand, you will have a different way of communicating with them, because you're reading beyond the room, right. You understand when you need to speak and when you need to listen. And then you also try to, let's say, navigate the conversation without tension, without moving towards escalation.
Speaker 2:And one thing which is really important is if you, for example, place your arguments or the challenges that the teams are facing, not just place them there, because they might probably already know. You know we need to be solution oriented. So how could it look differently and what would the impact be? Because management is oriented around outcomes, right, we need to deliver, the customer needs to be happy, et cetera, et cetera. So if we just place them, the challenges, over there and say like, okay, these are all the problems that we have. Okay, thank you very much. What now? Right, so we need to get an understanding and we can also tackle them small. So we can do small steps in terms of we do not need to place the whole bucket with problems, but maybe something which is like very important and has also a very big impact across teams. So if we talk, okay, we have that specific challenge for example, the requirements not being ready and everyone is expecting that we are delivering and have zero rollovers maybe Scrum is not the right framework, even though we wish it would be right, but it is not useful right now. So what is the actual problem here?
Speaker 2:And then try to find solutions or different ways of working. Be it, for example, if we want to stick with scrum, okay, we have four weeks that we usually have as a sprint. Let's maybe reduce it to two. Would that help somehow? Because then we have enough to plan. So, giving them an overview of the challenges, maybe focusing on on the most important, but then come up right away with possible solutions, still trying to understand where they are coming from. The scrum master should understand what are the challenges of high management or the senior level, and then come up with possible different ways of managing it where still some part is met that is needed by senior management, but still making the shift towards where we actually want to go, because you're usually not doing Scrum or Agile in an organization that does not want to become Agile, right? So, keeping that in mind, okay, our intention is to be Agile.
Speaker 2:In order to be Agile, certain things need to change, and that would be a way to do so. And then have, of course, a backup, and the backup is usually being a group of scrum masters where you come together, where you discuss all these certain challenges that are placed in or that are inside of the organization and that are not only met by one team but multiple teams are facing right, and then have the conversations there, and it can be also just a regular call, like encouraging scrum bosses to have regular calls with management just to maybe give an update or give an overview on what is going on and how can we tackle that, forming task forces for specific areas. So we had, for example, in the organization all of a sudden the need for KPIs due to high rollovers and also due to some other issues that were going on. And then there was one team that was placing these KPIs into place. And we're not talking about agile KPIs like, for example, velocity or I don't know. You know, like, have the overview of the burndown chart, etc. I'm talking about how many tickets have been done by whom, how many tickets are rolling over and how many, for example, questions were asked during the sprint towards the product owner. And there you see that there is a lot of control happening inside of that team. And the idea was because that team was fine or less with having these KPIs in place, even though there was some friction there, but the idea was to roll that out throughout the whole organization, to all the teams.
Speaker 2:And here, if the scrum master is not speaking up and sharing with the community of scrum masters, okay, here this is going on and this is going into a wrong direction.
Speaker 2:What can we do to steer into another direction that can go wrong, like really wrong, right? So what we did, for example, is okay, try to understand where is the need coming from? Again, same, basically same root issues that were due to several other things happening there. But we try to understand where is it coming from things happening there, but we try to understand where is it coming from. And then we try to understand what is it what they need? And then we came up with a plan B and said, okay, we understand that you need this input. For example, here's a different way to visualize everything that is happening inside of a team, which is still agile, though Right. So we are not going into micromanagement and creating some sort of KPIs that are ridiculous, but we are trying to come up with something that actually helps our organization and the teams as well. And that's when we formed a task force creating this new dashboard, where also management had a visibility on what's going on, which then went into a more positive direction.
Speaker 1:let's say, that's an absolutely fantastic example. I love how you came together, got to the true problem that needed to be solved and came up with an alternative that was even better than what was suggested. I think that's great. I will say, parjan, that sometimes, even though you do your due diligence and even though you build a solid case, sometimes it's just not in the cards and they say, okay, I understand that, but this is what I want. And when that case happens, what I find is that's important for me as a scrum master, as a coach, is to at least say okay, I understand that you really want this and you're really strong against this.
Speaker 1:I disagree, and you can say that respectfully. You don't have to put your job in jeopardy and say it in a very mean-spirited way, but just to say I disagree and to say these are the risks that I feel like you're introducing. By doing that, at least you're showing that you hear and you don't necessarily agree with what's being suggested, but you're going to go along with it and you're putting on record these are the risks that I believe you're accepting by going forward with that, and I find that by doing that, it kind of softens the blow a little bit. Maybe you don't get that immediate. Okay, you're right, or okay, let's not do that. But it sets the stage for you to change much more easy sooner, as opposed to just having something pushed down later. But those are my thoughts on that. But you can't win them all right.
Speaker 2:You cannot. But I absolutely agree with you. I think even it's the duty of the scrum master to disagree when there are certain conversations going on that go into a wrong direction. This is also something that is, I think, happening too often, that we somehow internally I don't want to say give up, but just silently disagree right. So we want to change. We see that not everyone is getting along with that change or with the thoughts that we have, and then we simply accept it.
Speaker 2:But I think it is very, very important to say I kindly disagree here because, for whatever reason, and then sharing also the reasons and, as you said, sharing those risks that come along with what management wants or whoever it wants, right, it does not necessarily need to be management, it can also be within the team, because you're not only a listener within the team as the scrum master. So if this, if the scrum team or the, the team itself, goes into, I don't know, into a different direction than it's supposed to be, then you also need to speak up there. So speaking up definitely is crucial for me absolutely crucial.
Speaker 1:I almost equate it to like a sin of omission. It's like well I didn't do anything wrong because I didn't do anything. Well, just not doing anything doesn't mean that that's not wrong.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Talk to us a little bit about the tools and the techniques that you've got to help scrum masters in these challenges that we have, sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, apart from one thing that I shared before, like building the awareness and building a community together with other Scrum Masters, is also really something that I like, something that you touched upon. I influence, even though I am not actively able to change something right. So, to visualize okay, here is something that I understand is not within my area and it can be simple. It can be drawing, draw two circles. Try to understand. Okay, this is within my power, this is something outside of my power, and there is an area which is maybe outside of your power but that you can actively influence. To understand that is already, let's say, one step forward. And then what I also like also to to visualize is maybe understand the, the report lines or the decision points, right, so, so, creating kind of organizational mappings or influence mappings, just to understand, okay, here decisions are made that way, here this person needs to report there. Also to understand, like a little bit, the subsystem within the organization.
Speaker 2:And then, if I see that the teams are quite limited, even though everyone speaks about empowerment, maybe even to play certain games like delegation poker together with the management, so play delegation poker in terms of, okay, there are certain areas where we need to report quite often, or where we constantly need the okay from you.
Speaker 2:How could it look like in an ideal world? Where is it that you actually need to make the decision? Where is it that it's just enough to be informed about it? So this is also something that I like to do, and to play with management as well, which we are planning currently as well, but then also, of course, in the communities, and when I'm talking about communities, I'm not only talking about having Scrum Master community right, which is important in itself, to have a group of Scrum Masters coming together to share their challenges, but also be part of other communities. So broaden a little bit your perspective in terms of, maybe participate in a community full of product owners, try to understand their view, or maybe try to understand together with leadership, or ask leadership to be involved in some sort of reoccurring leadership meetings, where it's quite nice to also have the perspective of Scrum Masters, the voice of Scrum Masters, when decisions are taken that are impacting the way of working of their development teams. These could be, I think, some quite nice tools that Scrum Masters can use.
Speaker 1:Those are great. I'm going to second your suggestion on delegation poker. That's been very successful to me and very eye-opening, so I definitely second that motion. So when you invite team members in to talk with either the stakeholders or you're talking senior level executives, what are some ways that you set the stage for that? Because that can be very intimidating to some team members, especially if you've never been in that situation where you're working in a larger organization and it is very hierarchical. You're kind of in the safe zone of working with your team and you can kind of do and say whatever you want in the team, but now you're being invited to this meeting or this event where you're able to talk with senior level executives. How do you set the stage for that? I've got some thoughts, but I want to hear yours first.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, I think there are like some really nice facilitation techniques, because I think it is first of all very important to understand what kind of meeting it is right. Is it a meeting where you are trying to share your thoughts but you're overruled by management and it's like, okay, whatever management says is like um, let's say, put on the on the golden plate afterwards. Or is it something where management allows you to freely share your view and it's not overruled by them, right it? It depends on understanding that first. So, for example, let's imagine I would set up a meeting together with the developers and management. I would in the beginning make clear that everyone here is supposed to act on an eye-to-eye level, so there is no hierarchy within that specific session. So management, for example, is sharing.
Speaker 2:And let's imagine we're having an interactive session where we are supposed to place stickies on a board or whatever. Everyone is doing that at the same time, including management. Because if you, for example, start with management or you start with the developers and the management is doing that afterwards, it directly creates this kind of hierarchy because you you just wait for them to to start or to end and you just follow right. So let's imagine management starts with their stickies, everyone else will just play something similar or nothing on the board, right?
Speaker 2:And I think also it is important to have that conversation as a Scrum Master beforehand with the participants, which are not the developers, so management to make a very open speech. What is the intention here, what is going to be my role in that conversation as well, just to have this, this kind of ice-breaking effect on the team. And if the team plus management is not there yet, I think what is also quite nice is kind of a silent workshop or a silent ritual, whatever it is that needs to be done where people are not yet there to show okay, I am the one saying this, but it's kind of anonymous, right Just to try to understand what is the actual situation in the beginning before we make further steps into becoming more open. So you need to build some trust and a relationship in the beginning before moving forward.
Speaker 1:Wonderfully said. That was exactly my suggestion is the scrum master really is going to know the temperature of the team, they're going to know whether things are boiling over or whether it's just kind of they're scared to say anything, and just be transparent and go in to say, okay, we're going to this meeting and, as a senior leader, I just feel like you should know. They're scared, they're really not going to be upfront with you, they're going to be very reserved. So I would like to help you. How can I help you make them more open into this meeting? Because odds are they're going to come in and they're going to want to listen to you and they're not going to want to say much.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I think that is extremely important because, let's face it, they're used to talking. Right, they come into a room, everybody looks at them and they just start talking. They lead lots of meetings, they stand in front of the whole organization or the whole department and they represent everybody. So they're very used to talking, letting them know exactly what they're stepping into. And that's where I find the delegation poker to be just absolutely fantastic for trying to level that up. And it's interesting too to see the difference in the perspectives. Right, you see the autonomy level of senior leadership.
Speaker 1:Oh, teams are yeah, to see the difference in the, in the perspectives, right, you see, like the autonomy level of senior leadership? Oh, teams are, yeah, they're autonomous, they know they can do whatever they want. Yeah, they can take the ball. And then the teams are like, oh hey, we're just told what to do and we just do it, no questions asked. Those are very interesting and fascinating sessions to run, but, yeah, so, and then on the other side, prepping the team as well, letting them know that this isn't going to be successful if everyone just is silent with cameras off.
Speaker 1:Right, if you don't bring anything to the table, then this is going to be a waste of everybody's time. So it's up to you. If you want to make this valuable, if you want to see some of these impediments that you're obviously so passionate about, Don't go in guns blazing, but be respectful. Let's get these things out in the open and find out how the management team can support you. What do you need from them? So, yeah, being that person I see the scrum master is like the person who sets the table for a lot of these conversations. They set the environment so that it's right, so that when the people come together they can actually have a great conversation and get to some meaningful actions.
Speaker 2:Fully agree. Two points to add. On one hand, regarding the preparation of management, I think that you made some really great points here and I think it is also important to address that one topic use easy language, right? Not these intimidating big buzzwords where people are just feeling, okay, what is meant with that? And even if I know what it's meant, it's like overwhelming for me, just like use language that we are using, like try to speak our language as well.
Speaker 2:And when we are talking about prepping the team, I think it is really important to also understand and consider that not everyone likes to speak, not even inside of the team, right? There are like different characters, which is totally fine. You can indeed prep the team, have that internal conversation. What do we want to share and who's going to share that? Maybe it is not needed that everyone speaks up because it is like you said it is intimidating, it's. Maybe for some, the stress level is increasingly high just knowing that they have to talk to management. But make sure that your points are heard. So if you do not want to speak up in front of management, make sure that that one person that is going to represent you, which can be a colleague of yours is covering everything that you want to say as well, so that you do not feel that, okay, this was a waste of time, or, oh, I wish I could speak up right now, but I am afraid no, I know that someone will have my back as well during that conversation.
Speaker 1:All right, Parjan. The time has gone by so fast. We have so much more to talk about, but we do have a time limit to stay within, and Scrum Masters are very good about respecting time limits, so we're going to do that. What advice do you have for Scrum Masters out there that might be? You know, after hearing this episode, I believe I could be more of a change agent. I've shied away from that. What advice do you have for those Scrum Masters out there that might find themselves in that situation?
Speaker 2:Well, one of my advices would be definitely to, if you do not have a community yet, to start with building that community, fellow scrum monsters, to have that conversation with them and then also try to understand that the team dynamics or your team are only one part of the story. Right, try really to understand between the challenges that you, as a scrum monster, are facing inside of the organization Is that really a team issue or is there something deeper behind? And then, maybe, just to start very simple, start drawing. Start drawing the actual current team situation that you have and then try to understand okay, is that something really happening only inside of the team or might there be something bigger behind that I can tackle with whomever is needed in supporting me regarding that issue, right? So this is something where I would say start drawing and then also understand that there is so much more happening inside the organization and show how valuable you are.
Speaker 1:Fantastic advice. Thank you, parjan. Well, our listeners out there. If they want to get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to do that?
Speaker 2:Actually, everyone can find me on LinkedIn under my name Pajamanguri, and that's where you can find me.
Speaker 1:Great. We'll leave a link to that in the show notes to make it easy for our listeners. So, Parjan, thank you so much. This has been a pleasure. I really appreciate your time coming on the show today thank you so much, mark all right, everybody.
Speaker 1:That brings an end to another episode of the agile within. We'll see you next time. Thanks for joining us for another episode of the agile within. If you haven't already, please join our LinkedIn page to stay in touch. Just search for the Agile Within and please spread the word with your friends and colleagues Until next time. This has been your host, Mark Metz.
