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The Agile Within
Providing agile insights into human values and behaviors through genuine connections.
The Agile Within
NeuroLeadership: The Power of Team Psychology with Harkiran Brar
What happens when you blend the marvel of natural wonders with the intricate science of the human mind? Join us as Harkiran Brar, IT project manager and host of "Project Perks with Harkiran," takes us on a journey through the picturesque beauty of Niagara Falls and into the realm of neuroleadership. Discover how the awe-inspiring vistas of our world can ignite creativity and enhance decision-making processes. Harkiran guides us through the fusion of neuroscience and leadership, highlighting how understanding the brain's functionalities can reshape our approach to behavior management and decision-making in agile environments.
Ever wondered how to balance empathy and authority in leadership? We navigate the layers of the human brain, from emotional impulses to rational thinking, shedding light on the art of maintaining composure amidst emotional outbursts. Harkiran shares valuable insights on using emotional intelligence and self-regulation to create a psychologically safe environment where team members feel encouraged to express themselves. With strong communication as the backbone, we discuss strategies for leaders to manage emotions and inspire trust within their teams, ensuring a harmonious and productive workplace.
Connect with Harkiran on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/harkiran-brar-pmp-psm-14b21321a/
Watch or listen to the "Project Perks with Harkiran" podcast:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuHlJdOZTzTye11thLwsEQg
https://open.spotify.com/show/55xrSSe9HNwvJ9uXJ3bwPt?si=364f7c6ec2944153
Check out Harkiran's offerings:
https://topmate.io/harkiran_brar_pmppsm
Follow us on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-agile-within
Welcome to the Agile Within. I am your host, mark Metz. My mission for this podcast is to provide Agile insights into human values and behaviors through genuine connections. My guests and I will share real-life stories from our Agile journeys triumphs, blunders and everything in between, as well as the lessons that we have learned. So get pumped, get rocking. The Agile Within starts now.
Speaker 1:Before we dive into today's episode, I'd like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, impact Agility. Impact Agility specializes in training and coaching through scrumorg and proconbonorg, empowering teams with cutting-edge tools and techniques. Their classes are designed to deliver actionable insights, whether you're a scrum master, agile coach, delivery manager or organizational leader. Whether you're a scrum master, agile coach, delivery manager or organizational leader, at the helm is president and founder Matt Domenici, who has guided over 50 organizations toward professional agility. With his hands-on experience, matt helps teams and organizations take ownership of their processes and outcomes, unlocking their full potential To explore free learning resources, check out their training schedule or book a free consultation. Visit impactagilityco Once again. That's impactagilityco. Well, hey there, welcome back. This is the Agile Within Podcast with your host, mark Metz. My guest for today is IT project manager and podcast host of the show Project Perks, with Harkiran. Harkiran Brar Harkiran, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Hey Mark, how are you doing? I'm so happy to be at Agile Within today. I have seen people appearing as guests there, and today I am guest on your show. So, yeah, I'm more than happy. How are you?
Speaker 1:Great, so now we turn the table around. You're used to being a podcast host. Now you get to be on the other side of the table, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and to be honest, I am getting those initial jitters now how it feels to be as a guest. You know I'm afraid to be bombarded with questions and all that stuff, right? So yeah, I'm all excited and it's great to be at the other side of the screen today.
Speaker 1:Cool. Well, harkeron, you come from Ontario Canada, and I want to ask you our icebreaker question If I were coming to Ontario Canada for a day and had never been there before, what's one thing that you would say that I can't miss doing?
Speaker 2:I think one thing that fascinated me was the Niagara Falls. People like to see it from the US point of view, how it looks like and how huge it is, how beautiful it is like that. We try to admire beauty in much more ways when we see that and I would love you to take to niagara falls and would like to show you the canada side of the falls I would love that and do some other things around there, like shopping, eating on those streets and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I would love to take you there. So I feel blessed to have experienced that thing. Uh, you know such a beauty, I would say. And like one thing I would love to add like visiting such places, right, such marvels by nature or beauty by nature, like we are into the podcast community or we are creating some content, so there, you do need creativity, because if creativity is not there, you really can't come out with new ideas or, you know, look forward to events and when you visit such places, they kind of unblock your creativity. Your creativity outlet is just amazing. You get a, you know, rush of creativity within as well. So, be it watching any waterfall or be it watching any nature space or visiting any wildlife place, I would say it really unblocks creativity. So that's the one more reason I would love apart from making you visit any other monument, I would love to take you to some you know nature place like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, the title for our episode today is Neuroleadership the Power of Team Psychology. So, Harkiran, talk to us about neuroleadership. What's that all about?
Speaker 2:Okay. So it's a very heavy-weighted word, I would say. You know, when somebody hears neuroleadership, leadership itself is a very heavy-weighted word, right being used around. It has been overly used, I would say, everywhere in the world right now. When we use the word neuro with that it kind of sounds very technical or, you know, very I would say medicinal term as well. You know, when we hear the word neuro and very scientific touch to it, I would love to break it down in two simple ways I can say In order to understand neuroleadership, we simply just want to know what is neuroscience.
Speaker 2:As the word neuroscience itself it is telling me that it has something to do with my brain, obviously. So this means how you can understand your brain, how your brain works. And why I want to understand how my brain works is because then I can take some much more informed decisions. I can react more appropriately. If something comes my way or some challenge comes my way, how can I react? How can I respond to those situations and basically manage my behaviors? That way, neuroscience is all about understanding, we can say, how my brain is working. Put it simply I won't go into the technical terms about the three parts of your brain and all those stuff over here. It's just as simple as that. Now let's come to the part of neural leadership. Once you have decoded what's neuroscience, that means Okay, if I want to say like, if I want to ask you, mark, what do you understand by leadership? You might be hearing this term many times in a day or in a week, perhaps in your meetings, weekly meetings, right? So what do you understand by leadership, mark?
Speaker 1:Well, it means different things in different contexts. So for me I think about really is central of thinking about in agility and scrum. I think about being a servant leader, because leadership to some equates to power and telling people what to do and being at the top of the food chain, so to speak. But I have a different viewpoint of leadership where I feel like you can lead through serving people, but you have to make sure that there's two parts of the equation. Many times when we hear the term servant leader, we focus more on the servant side, more so than the leadership side. And when we talk about leadership from generations past, they tend to just totally ignore the servant side sometimes right and just focus just on hammering down leaders and telling people what to do. So I would say you know, as a leader, you're being an example for others.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you're also being supportive so that your team can grow the people that are reporting to you. That really is leadership, that you're empowering others.
Speaker 2:Leadership itself. It's a heavy-weighted word, like I mentioned in the beginning, right, it has many layers to decode which we can't put it simply in one word. And now today we are discussing neuroleadership, right, so it's obviously going to be more bigger than we imagined that way. So neuroleadership is nothing but like. As I said, we will be applying the concepts of neuroscience that is how our brain is working to leadership, right, to leadership, to management consulting, to change management processes, to organization management, to create some portfolios within of a company, to work with my teams all together and by even doing all of this, you might ask, right, so all of this is why this term even emerged new leadership.
Speaker 2:We are doing all of this to make you know leadership effective and to increase our organization performance. Right, because these are the two targets I think every industry and every business have, at the end of the day, is to bring productivity and effectiveness in whatever they are doing. I would say that's the entire. I think every industry and every business have, at the end of the day, is to bring productivity and effectiveness in whatever they are doing. I would say that's the entire concept behind that. In fact, back in 2000s, we have Neuro Leadership Institute which came into place all across the world. It's a very renowned organization out there. They provide courses to people on neuroscience and neuro leadership as well, so it was co-founded by Dr David Rock, so we have neuroscience leadership institute also out there. If you want to learn more on that part, yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's interesting because it's very personal and different people have different personalities.
Speaker 1:When you talk about leadership, people have different leadership styles and I'm always one of the ones that's a more supportive leader.
Speaker 1:Own now, but when I taught them in sports, when I was their coach and coaching other children and young adults as they started growing, I was always more of a supportive coach to the kids and to the adults, supporting them in that, making sure that they could understand that I was there to help them, not to bark orders at them or to motivate them through threats or through some negative behavior Like if you don't do this right, then you're not going to play in the next game. I've said this several times in the podcast. That has never been very effective to me as I was growing up, so I don't choose to lead that way. So I've always been that supportive person and I just kind of feel like it has to be authentic. Yeah, true, don't you think? Definitely you can't go through all this. You can use this neuroscience, but if it's not something that you truly want to see, the best in somebody and help them improve it comes across as phony or it comes across as inauthentic.
Speaker 1:Have you had any experiences like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I resonate with what you just mentioned here, mark, around the leadership part. Basically, as you mentioned, you were more of a facilitator than being into a more authority role. You know, directing people to do this, do that, you know. And let's just understand, we are working in such organizations or in complex projects where things do get uncertain, when uncertain situations happen. For a second, we really don't know how we gonna react to that. Let's say covid.
Speaker 2:So the entire world was shut down and various people, everybody around the globe, had different kind of triggers at that time and they had various kind of responses as well. It wasn't the same for everybody. Some people took it, accepted it as it was, and some people really didn't know what to do. And then we had the governments out there telling us some list of instructions to do this, do that, do that. And we were resistant. You know we were resistant to wear masks as well, initially, but we saw the world evolving, you know, like that.
Speaker 2:So I would love to bring one point over here. Uh, yeah, why all of this doesn't seem how we can in fact make it more genuine or authentic, you know, coming back to your point, that is just doing it from your just doing it within the click of your hand or within the clap of your hand. You know, without even thinking that you're actually doing it. You know subconsciously, like that, if you want to be more genuine on that part, implementing it within your teams, or interpersonal or intrapersonal, you know like there is something which we need to understand about our brain. You know it is very magical, it's a very magical tool we all have been gifted with. I would say, uh, what happens is we simply have I won't go to the technical terms because those jargons they kind of, you know, confuse people, but I leave that to scientists for today I'll just talk about layman's words, you know.
Speaker 2:So number one is my number one layer is my emotional layer of my brain. Emotional layer of my brain is basically when I act out of impulse. For example, I had a fight with somebody and impulsively I will just react and say something. Or if I'm in a conflict, I'll just say whatever comes into my mind, if I'm being accused of something. You know, like that it's a very common situation that happens. That is basically my emotional layer of my brain, making me to react to things. For example, if you have to, you're committing to all. You're commuting to your office and you have to face a lot of traffic jam today and in between that jam you you get a call from your friend or you get an important call. You really won't be able to give you 100% over there because you have some emotional reaction or coming out of there you're in that situation. So this is the emotional layer which we have, you know, with our brain. Then the second layer yeah, yes, mark yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I just want to add because when we, when we say emotional, there's lots of layers that are built into emotional right? So, yeah, when you say someone is emotional, that can mean different things. Like you say, that could mean someone that is very highly charged and you may say something wrong to them and they get very angry at it and they just burst out. That could mean emotional. Another side of emotional that you could see is you say something to somebody and you start seeing tears well up in their eyes, and they're extremely sensitive, I relate more to that side.
Speaker 1:I definitely have a more sensitive side to me, not to say that I don't get angry, but if I did have to pick one. And then there's all these little layers in between, and so the emotional layer is just really fascinating to me about how humans really all different types of humans with different personalities, the types of emotional responses they can have yeah, true, no, you're very amazing.
Speaker 2:You've brought amazing point there, mark, because when you say a sensitivity side of yours, you know it also goes with the empathetic side of yours. That how much empathy you have. Right, and as a leader, this is one must skill you should be having within yourself, because you need to be empathetic with people, you need to understand what kind of situation they're going in, you need to feel what they are feeling, right that way. So I think you have touched there's a very amazing point of empathy as well over here, mark. That's amazing. Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:And real quick. Empathy can be a it can be a good thing. I actually this was a shortcoming on my part. I feel like this is a personality flaw.
Speaker 1:So when I was an engineering manager, I was a software engineer for 19 years before that, so I really understood the challenges that software engineers came across. So I was very, very sensitive to the types of issues and I could identify with those. And if I look back and I replay, you know there were probably times that I was more empathetic than I should have been because there's a time to. There's a time to to be empathetic and to, but then there's also a time to inspire people.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's a tough balance.
Speaker 2:I know I get it, I get it. And I would say that's where boundaries come into picture, right Good?
Speaker 2:point Like we are being taught every now and then. In fact, this concept came later to me. But these days, children who are growing up, the new age parents, they are teaching them boundaries right now. Even if somebody is in the age of 10 to 15, they are learning about boundaries right now. So if those set of kids today, that generation, is learning what boundaries, then just see how amazing leaders they will be if they, you know, reach their by the age they actually enter the management chain. So I think, uh, it's okay to accept at first that we are, you know, facing that side of the issue as well and, uh, having after that, we have amazing tools right to just tackle with them that way. So, if you don't mind, mark, I'd love to go back to the layers of the brain we were talking about.
Speaker 1:Let's do it.
Speaker 2:So we just covered our touch base, the emotion part of the brain which actually teaches us how to or, even without teaching us, we just act upon things. Then the second layer I would love to decode of her, of her brain, is the thinking layer. So this is one of the most amazing layer and something which we should be always bringing back our attention to, that, apart from all the layers, I should be majorly focused towards my thinking layer, because the thinking layer saves you from the world. It is responsible for taking up all the doing, all the logical reasoning, doing all the analytical reasoning out there, making quick decisions, you know, making some logical reasons and decisions, well-informed decisions, in fact, right after doing all the data analysis part as well, keeping your heart and keeping your other emotions aside, you are really thinking about the reality. So your thinking layer is what helps you bring, you know, great decisions into place. I think this is something we should be focusing more upon touching base, more upon this layer of a brain and in fact, I would love to coin a term here which is in our daily, day-to-day life activities. We should be working on bringing our thinking layer online. These days, you see, we we just keep on checking who is online, who is offline. You send a message to somebody and you know we say two minutes ago this person was online and not responding and stuff like that. But this kind of awareness, if we bring with it ourselves, that is when I know when is my thinking layer online? If I'm off track by any kind of distraction happening around me, if something happened, I will. If somebody said something to me in my team or some conflict arise, I will not rely to my emotional layer, which is, you know, just going and reacting. I'll say, okay, I'm self-aware, I'll just do a quick check that. Okay, harkaran, you need to stop. All right, let me bring back my thinking layer online, which has been away for a few hours now. Right, and then I will just take a good decision and do some problem solving, the real problem solving that ways. So this is my thinking layer. In short, you know which we should be focusing on the understandable brain.
Speaker 2:And the third layer mark I would love to cover is our, you know, survival layer. Survival layer is something which is our defense mechanism if, even if a, if a conflict arises in our team, in front of our stakeholders, our number one priority is always to defend our teams, right, right, just the way. If something happens in your family, even if without knowing what our family member did, we'll be quite defensive about them. You know that way. So my survival layer of my brain is turned on whenever a situation comes up which is deep-rooted with some memories, in fact, or it has something to do with my, something involved decisions with my heart, or some family matters or some closed members, like that, or simply survival. It's a matter of your life and death.
Speaker 2:That way, that brain, part of my brain, is activated there and we take some actions which are default actions within our brain, such as defense. So that gets turned on like that. So, to sum it up, I would say, on a daily basis, whichever situation we face in our team. So, according to a neuroscience which is understanding how my brain is working right, which is basically these three layers the emotional layer, the thinking layer and the survival layer, if I know which one gets activated. Well, my only goal should be to bring back my thinking layer online, to be much more aware about that, and then take decisions moving forward.
Speaker 1:That's really good. So I'm thinking about these different layers, I'm thinking about my own self. I think about like with the survival layer. Usually what that triggers with me is if my values are being challenged. That's when my survival layer I can see it coming out that's true.
Speaker 2:That's true, and that's where my default mechanism comes into picture, right, the default action or reaction. You can say that you know this is what I will do, no matter what. Like, as I said, your values are in question, no matter what if this happens. Said your values are in question, no matter what if this happens, without even doing the analysis, background analysis, we are just there to you know, support it with facts and figures which are deep rooted, and facts and figures they remain with us, like if 10 years and 15 years from now as well, they will be deep rooted within our brain.
Speaker 1:Do you have any tips and tricks, techniques, anything to help our listeners and to me? I'm curious too to remind you, like you said, to be reflective, to take a pause, to look and think about these different layers and not just stay, not just dwell in the moment.
Speaker 2:We only learn something by doing. I mean, I can never learn. I can read a book, but unless I implement it, I will really not get to know what it was for. Just to say, let's say, I can learn about football, but unless I'm in the field playing a real game, I really not get to know how it is. Yes, definitely, I have actually implemented those techniques in my teams as well.
Speaker 2:As I mentioned, as a leader, we need to behave differently, right, we need to learn how we are behaving, how I'm behaving with my team first of all, and how I'm behaving with myself, because the relationship which I have with myself is of utmost importance here. Because if I don't know that, if I don't evaluate that relationship, I will be of no good to my team and I won't be adding value at all. You know being a leader. So, as they say, charity begins at home. Right, it all starts with you. So now let's just say how do I even do that? When I was saying that about the three layers of our brain, I did mention the thinking layer of my brain, which is my only attempt should be to bring that part of my brain online. I have a call with some great stakeholders out there and we are probably meeting to resolve any issue, okay, and I get some escalation emails out there and all of that is happening. Now the first step, the first thing which I will be doing, is I'll be keeping in check. I will be keeping my emotions aside. That mail is not in a very friendly tone. Perhaps it's very aggressive. It sounds very frustrating, a frustrated email. You know I can sense that as well. How can he or she accuse me that? You know I didn't do that and all of that stuff. I will keep all of that aside first of all, and I'll bring back my online brain. I'll bring back my thinking layer of my brain online.
Speaker 2:Now, this is something which will not happen automatically. We have to build that muscle up. So how do we do that in our teams? Basically, by practicing meditation. I can say like that, because that's how you can remain more calm, how much calmness you have in a day, how much, how much calm and composed you can remain in a situation of chaos around you. Right, like that. Being patient as a leader, these attributes, which are basically the soft skills of a leader that comes into picture and how you're actually implementing it. It comes back here.
Speaker 2:But all of this can only happen when you know how much aligned you are within yourself, how much aware you are, because I can easily go and accuse my stakeholder that how can you say this? Right, but I need to be aware of my myself at that place. That, okay, you will not do that, but instead of that, you will just work on the problem solving techniques over there. You will work on the problem solving techniques over there. You will work on the emotional intelligence part over there. That is, basically understanding their part of the story first, and then, you know, going back to the logical reasoning over there.
Speaker 2:And another thing is when we talk about emotional intelligence, it all boils down to how good communicator you are. A communicator is, since we we have been doing podcast smart you also to how good communicator you are. A communicator is, since we have been doing podcast smart. You also know a good communicator is not somebody who just keeps on speaking and blabbering. Another skill is to be an active listener, right, and this is one skill you can vouch for, I think as a host, you know you need to be an active listener, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So we talked about leadership and we talked about these different layers in situations where the team is observing something being thrust upon the team and how the leader responds. Well, I'm curious to know, harkeron, what about if you, as a leader, let's say, have an emotional outburst and then you come back to your thinking layer and you're like I can't believe. I just said that. What do you do next? Because you're in the heat of the moment, you're in the middle, everybody's looking to you to see. Okay, they had this emotional response to how are they going to? What's their next step? How are they going to respond to that? What do you do then?
Speaker 2:I think that's a very beautiful point that you mentioned, mark, and it again, you know, goes back to that point of bringing my thinking layer online. What I'll do is okay. At that particular moment I would have seen that my eyes were swollen, perhaps right, or I was so angry that my cheeks got red at that moment, and my heart was racing, perhaps even when saying such mean things to other people.
Speaker 2:You know, sometimes we try to be kind, but things happen, right? So if all of these things are happening, we should be keeping in check, with our responses, right, the kind of triggers we get up from our brain. Is it a fight trigger, is it a flight trigger? Or what kind of trigger it is? Is it particularly kind of a flop response from my end? What kind of response and giving at that very moment that really matters to me, and I know this happens.
Speaker 2:This is something, is a brain, it's a muscle. It cannot bring back of a brain online each and every moment, and that's why we, as leaders, we need to focus more on, you know, having building increased emotional intelligence and also doing some simple breathing exercises. They bring back to us, you know, in tune with our bodies, because, let's say, everything starts with us. That way, like I'm not saying any scientific things over here or how science works or how physical bodies work, but all of this is related in a way, because, let's admit, projects we talk about projects and they're done by whom. They're done by people, right? And if we're not understanding people, how they behave, how they respond to things. If we are not emotionally intelligent on that part, we really cannot be great leaders and we really cannot lead our teams.
Speaker 2:Over here, collaborating with my team comes into picture, mark. I should be having strong collaboration with my team. Strong communication channels should be there with my team and something on the channels I would say let's go back to the psychological safety of my teams. If my team has that kind of a safety, that kind of environment within them where they can respond or they feel safe to give feedbacks, I will not have any problem at all. Then I will simply rely back on my thinking layer and I will not go back to my emotional layer then, because my team is psychologically safe.
Speaker 1:So, as you're talking through that, I'm thinking because I'm thinking back to a couple of situations where I became a bit unruffled and someone said something and I had an emotional reaction to that in front of a group and then, like you say, say, I felt my cheeks getting hot and I was like, oh my goodness, okay, shake myself out of it for just a minute. You know you almost can see red right, because you're just like so, so consumed by it. But then you, you kind of shake yourself out and you're like okay now, what do I do?
Speaker 1:and what I've had to do before is simply apologize because we're all human Nobody is perfect and just to say I am so sorry. I really unloaded on you and you do not deserve. You deserve better than that and I probably was carrying some problems that I had in a meeting that I just got out of. I was carrying those into this meeting and I was letting them out on you and that's not fair to you and I'm sorry. Can we start again so you can be a leader? Hopefully they can model your actions. What do you think about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's a very beautiful point that you mentioned, mark. Apologizing is basically acknowledging first of all your behavior. It's like, okay, maybe I I too could have reacted that way. First step would be acknowledging that, okay, I have to and you behaved wrong over there in a way, right, whatever the situation may be, but you're not the one to speak like that or to behave like that. Acknowledging first of all, accepting, as you mentioned, apologizing and self-regulating, which is basically checking with up with myself, because when my if these physical gestures right, my teeth getting hot, my heart is racing and all these stuff, my body, it's still giving me signals that calm down and slow down. Right, this is not the best for you or best for anybody else out there, and I think sales regulation over there plays a very important role and we can do that like.
Speaker 2:You can take pause from that meeting for a minute. You can probably have water, you can walk around your corridor wherever you are, probably get some pressure. Okay, you can't just go anywhere out, but just take some pressure from the room where you are sitting. Or, and instead of take watching your phone or checking your phone with any notification, just go and talk to somebody in the room right. Just talk to somebody if you're working from home. Talk to some family member there. Talk to your team member in your office about some other event. So these kind of things, they just self-regulate our body. They bring us us back within ourselves. We are in the present moment, we are in the now, and then we are in the now. We are in the present moment we again get back and bring our thinking layer online. And that's how you bring your thinking layer online, mark, which is basically being present and being self-regulated within ourselves, and perhaps then take all the decisions you know, going forward from that point of view.
Speaker 1:I love the idea of self-regulating and being self-aware. I have to make this point For sure, because I want to make sure that if there's any listeners out there, maybe this is something that they can learn as well. So when we do have an emotional outburst and so I have had a situation that I'm thinking about right now from my past where somebody violated my values and I had an emotionally charged response to that in front of a large group I even brought this person to the company and sent some very direct loud comments.
Speaker 1:But they did violate my values.
Speaker 1:And so while I apologized for my response, I didn't apologize to the message that I was sending. What I'm trying to communicate to you and to our listeners there is be careful that you're not just too apologetic, because if you truly believe in something, don't sacrifice your values. I think you can apologize for the way you reacted to something, but still stand firm that no, these are my values and I stick by them. Let's have a more adult conversation. So I apologize for acting like a child. That's why you got the reaction that you did so. Anyway, I just it's always fascinating. You know, life is never about waiting to scale all the way on one side or waiting it all the way on the other. It's finding this magic balance that I always feel like I'm continually putting small weights on either side to try to get them out just right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah I think you have summarized it pretty well, mark, over here because otherwise you'd be compromising with the values, right? And which again goes back to the point which you said genuineness, right, how genuine you are as a person, because otherwise you are not standing by one single value. You can apologize for the way you behave, but you need to stand for your values as well, and I think that's how you become a great project manager as well, who is, you know, strong, who has strong values indeed.
Speaker 1:Well, Hakuran, this has been fascinating. Our listeners out there would like to get in touch with you. What's the best way for them to do that?
Speaker 2:Okay, so it's a little promotion time for me, or you know, promoting myself over here. So if anybody wants to reach out to me, uh, you can directly send a connection request to me on linkedin. And uh, that's my name. My name is herkaren brad and I think mark can leave a description linkedin uh link as well, below this episode. And, apart from this, I also have a podcast show that is Project Perks with Harkiran, where I'm talking everything about people and the processes, projects and products, and it's a weekly podcast. You can check it out on YouTube and you can check it out on Spotify as well. Please give it subscribe button and, you know, give it a like, follow and everything. And, yeah, I look forward to chat with amazing people out there because we all are working with each other and let's just make this bond stronger to build amazing products out there.
Speaker 1:That's great. Love your podcast. Follow you there and on LinkedIn. Always look forward to seeing what good information you've got there. So, harkeron, thank you so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate your time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks, Mark. Thank you for calling me here and I totally enjoyed our conversations and I will reflect back again today, you know, on the thinking part of my brain and it's a nice way to do some thought-provoking conversations. Yeah, thank you so much, Mark, for having me here today.
Speaker 1:That's great. All right, everybody that's going to bring you in to another episode of the Agile Within. It's been Mark Metz and Harker Ambrar. We'll see you next time. Thanks for joining us for another episode of the Agile Within. If you haven't already, please join our LinkedIn page to stay in touch. Just search for the Agile Within. If you haven't already, please join our LinkedIn page to stay in touch. Just search for the Agile Within and please spread the word with your friends and colleagues Until next time. This has been your host, mark Metz.